a personal mark/eduardo manifesto aka i don't know why this took me two hours to write D:

[aeroport_art]

I've been happily splashing about the The Social Network Mark/Eduardo fandom, which has incredibly high-quality fic and so much awesome backlog to go through. Unfortunately, I still haven't quite found an author whose characterisation hits home for me (save for little_missmimi, whose ficlet here bowled me over with how right it is).




A visual summary of the M/E dynamic. Eduardo waits, Mark ignores, Eduardo follows. Screencaps shamelessly re-posted from crosshair's incredible TSN overview here.

This is my personal take on Mark, Eduardo, and Mark/Eduardo.

Mark

(Aaron Sorkin's) Mark is immature, petty, and manipulative. Eduardo is drawn to Mark for all the qualities he himself lacks; arrogance, a disregard for wealth and status, and the freedom to fill no one's shoes but his own. Mark is selfish. He is the poster-child for the Ideal American in a culture that values entrepreneurship and individualism, and in that pursuit of a larger idea, Mark essentially cares about no one but himself. This isn't to say he's a "bad guy"; he isn't intentionally cruel unless he's being threatened. Nah, he's just self-absorbed and, again, immature.

Eduardo

Eduardo is an exact foil to Mark in that he cares about everyone but himself. (Sorkin's) Eduardo is insecure, has been bred to care about money/status, and has obvious Daddy issues. Eduardo is so real to me as the son of immigrant parents; for example, status symbols are one of the few ways for a family to gain respect in a new, sometimes hostile environment, and Eduardo embodies that value without a word. It's in every flawlessly-cut outfit TSN dressed him in, it's implied in his joining of the Phoenix club. As for his Daddy issues? Imagine (or reflect on, haha) being the child of parents who grew up in a very different, more difficult place and time. Anyone can tell you, it's daunting to fill the shoes of such figures, especially when they ask nothing of you in return but to make them proud. In a naive, well-meaning soul as Eduardo, that translates into a ton of pressure which translates into a bad case of low self-esteem. He doesn't feel like he deserves anything that isn't hard-fought, hard-won. (Slow-but-steady advertising versus Hit-the-jackpot venture capitalism, anyone?)

Mark/Eduardo

In Mark, Eduardo finds a compelling, foreign creature that makes him feel useful and needed. He wants to take care of Mark. In Eduardo, Mark finds an endless supply of nurturing and admiration to feed the gaping maw of his selfishness. Mark can kick Eduardo down, drag him through the mud--do anything with him, really--and Eduardo will always forgive him and probably instigate the reconciliation with a placating apology and two beers in his hand.

Now, I know it all sounds so sinister, but THIS IS WHY I'M FASCINATED. Everyone recognizes this relationship. Everyone has lived it. Whether it's a manipulative friend or lover--one year out of your life or someone you're still struggling with--I think most of us can relate to having been in a toxic relationship. These loved ones are like drugs. They'll give you the best moments of your life, but in the meantime, you tear each other down. In an expanded theme, this is why I find the film so compelling. It asks the question, along with several others:

Can someone ever leave an abusive relationship?

Was Eduardo strong enough to leave Mark in the end, or was his lawsuit just the loudest cry for attention yet and he'll be back for more emotional abuse in five, ten years' time?

I know I'm being heavy-handed, but this is just what interests me personally in this pairing. In terms of writing, I want to see Mark and Eduardo at their darkest, most stripped-down cores. Eduardo loves Mark so much it's painful to watch him onscreen.

I don't think Mark and Eduardo are a fairytale pairing. I think they're real, I think they're flawed, and I think through very, very good writing, someone can pick through the pieces of their broken selves and make something gorgeous out of it. And if we're lucky, they'll even get a happy ending ;) Hey, people mature! It isn't easy, but I would love to read that journey.

And anyway, if I wanted fluff and sunshine, that's what Jesse and Andrew are for <3

Comments

[noelia-g.livejournal.com]

This is the fandom and pairing that has taken over my brain lately, to be honest... And for all the reasons detailed here and also because fuck, this fandom is good. Not GK-good but almost, almost there, and a lot more prolific, so I'm drowning in fic.

(Wrote my own. Can I pimp? here. *hides*)

(I also think it's interesting that there's a fair number of people in this fandom that I know from GK... While the relationship is vastly different there are a number of similarities: almost-RPS dimension, smart and fast dialogue, the way Dustin-and-Chris became Ray-and-Walt of the Mark/Eduardo pairing ;))

[aeroport_art.livejournal.com]

YOU'RE IN TSN TOO?? *WIGGLES* THAT LENDS ME NO SMALL AMOUNT OF GLEE.

THANK YOU for pimping your fic!!! i'm gonna go over and read it now XDXDXD

oooh, who else from GK is writing for TSN? all i've seen so far is little_missmimi. clearly i have not read enough.

[noelia-g.livejournal.com]

I wasn't going to be. And then there was fic and the Andrew/Jesse love all over tumblr and then I rewatched the movie three times in a row, and well.

novembersmith for sure, and I see familiar facesusernames all over the meme... I know lunatics_word is into it and scribbling something though she hasn't posted it yet, too.

[aeroport_art.livejournal.com]

Yeah, this wasn't a fandom i was like "YEAH I NEED SOME M/E NOW" after seeing the film, but peoples recs are a surefire way to get into a fandom, innit? I don't regret it though, it's AWESOME XD

[noelia-g.livejournal.com]

Right after the movie I was more like: what is this? I want a happy ending DAMNIT and also, it should be Eduardo's page he's refreshing, I almost forgot about Erica by that time. But yeah, didn't send me looking for fic either.

And then fandom happened.

[staraflur.livejournal.com]

Um I was expecting a person mention from the time I TOLD YOU THIS WOULD HAPPEN (not personally regarding you, just fandom) AND YOU DOUBTED.

i haven't actually read that much fic for this but i guess i gotta start

[aeroport_art.livejournal.com]

YES. YES YOU SHOULD REALLY START READING TSN. The level of writing is pretty great :D:D:D

[aeroport_art.livejournal.com]

hey hon! thanks for your commenty :D i'm so glad you came with a different POV. that's the part that makes fandom so much fun; everyone has a different take on one piece of canon. this entry was just ONE interpretation of mark/eduardo, and despite the fact that i'm the one who wrote it, i can still be totally convinced of another mark/eduardo dynamic. it's up to a good author to be persuasive! and i love exploring and discussing them the different perspectives people have on one pairing.

[slasher48.livejournal.com]

I know this isn't supposed to be a prompt, but I'm going to make this stripped-down-to-their-darkest-selves fic you want one of my missions in life, okay?

'Cause I honestly COMPLETELY see this part of them that you are so fascinated by. I think it's a very "power of suggestion" way of looking at it, and like you said, they are immature and can grow up and get their happy ending (which I love to write), but I see this so much. I see the toxicity in their relationship, the borderline-abuse going on that makes the relationship so Petri-dish perfect.

So yeah, just thought I'd let you know that. I've excelled in dark fic elsewhere, and I think I could really do this. So, I guess, look out for it? Maybe not soon, but it's now one of my eventual TSN goals. So thank you, and future you're welcome...? ♥

[casey_sms.livejournal.com]

DAMN YOU BEAT ME TO IT, FANDOM CRUSH.

I'm going to make this stripped-down-to-their-darkest-selves fic you want one of my missions in life, okay?

Am I allowed to say I'm so glad I pimped this to you?

YES YES YES <3

[slasher48.livejournal.com]

SOMETIMES I DO THAT. ;)

YES YOU ARE. I HOPE THIS FANTASTICALLY INSIGHTFUL POSTER FEELS THE SAME WAY.

:squishes you:

[aeroport_art.livejournal.com]

Wait so, NOWHERE DOES IT SAY YOU AND slasher48 CAN'T BOTH WRITE ABUSIVE!MARK FIC. Though I do suppose you are indisposed at the moment with your kinkmeme duties. BUT STILL *grabby hands* I WANTS IT.

[casey_sms.livejournal.com]

I wouldn't rule it out. It'd be emotional abuse though because I can't imagine physical abuse. Possibly the use of sex as manipulation/humiliation.

I worry a lot about people saying things like hah this person is so fucked up, they get off on abuse. I guess haters gonna hate but it's not - IDEK HOW TO EXPLAIN IT >< It just isn't a thing for me. *vague hand guesture*

Should I admit that I have an abusive!Christy somewhere?

I thought it would be interesting (and disturbing) to have a tiny Asian girl beat up Wardo because well often we see guys beating up guys. Who says crazy Christy couldn't have been just a bit more on the side of crazy? Male victims of domestic violence from females find it hard to get help IRL and I feel really sad about that. For that one, I pictured Wardo to be like "it's okay, it's not like I can't fight her off if I have to" which would be all the more disturbing because he's just letting it happen. Because abuse is wrong wrong wrong and he doesn't get it :(

/o\

your kinkmeme duties

This makes me ridiculously happy. I want to tell my family, SEE I HAVE KINK MEME DUTIES TO ATTEND TO? CAN'T YOU CALL SEE I'M BUSYYYYYYYYY :P

[aeroport_art.livejournal.com]

oh man, i'm SO CHUFFED you feel the same way about mark/eduardo!!!!!! and HOMG, YOU'RE GOING TO WRITE IT?????? are you going to post it to mark_eduardo or should I just stalk your lj? i can do both, most definitely. *nodnod*

:DDDDD STALK ME FOR SURE I WOULD LOVE THAT

[slasher48.livejournal.com]

(If you're talking to me) I don't post Mark/Wardo to my Livejournal, but I do post it to the Kink_meme and Mark_Eduardo, and most likely if I post it, I'll try to leave a link for you here. I'll keep the comment in my inbox to remind me. And if not (which is unlikely) just keep an eye on bad_bad_books, which'll hopefully have links to all my Mark/Wardo by the end of the month.

AND YES I DO I DO. NOT COMPLETELY LIKE I SAID. BUT YES, I SEE THEIR DARKEST SELVES AND THEIR DARKEST SELVES ARE EXACTLY, EXACTLY AS YOU SAY. ♥

Re: :DDDDD STALK ME FOR SURE I WOULD LOVE THAT

[aeroport_art.livejournal.com]

Of course I'm talking to you!!

And yeah, I don't expect anyone to agree with this post 100%. Hell, I don't even agree with all of it, hahaha. It's kind of an extreme caricature of both Mark and Eduardo--just ones I don't see in this fandom very often, so I wanted to point it out and be like "BUT LOOK. UNDERNEATH THE BAMBI EYES AND CURLY PUPPY HAIR, THEY'RE SO FUCKED UP"

Let the stalking commence.

Re: :DDDDD STALK ME FOR SURE I WOULD LOVE THAT

[slasher48.livejournal.com]

:DDDD (Well, Casey's more well known in this fandom and she's in this thread too, so. :P)

Yeah, see, that's fucking awesome, because that's exactly how I put it to Case as we were talking about this post. It's one extreme. Just like Casey's post was when she was talking about the darker sides of Eduardo. (It's kind of irritating how people reacted to that, too; character studies like this one and that one will ensure a longevity this fandom could not have without them. If you can't talk about the darkness, talking about the light gets redundant. Trust me, as the mod for a fandom that's been going since '04, I know.) But you have to look at the extremes, so you know what they can devolve into if they're ~at their limits~.

YES THIS IS TRUE. I hope you see that in my fic, 'cause I know that, I do for sure. I really, really do, and I try to put it across. ^^

BAHA! YES! LET IT PLEASE. ♥

Re: :DDDDD STALK ME FOR SURE I WOULD LOVE THAT

[casey_sms.livejournal.com]

LOL I REPLIED BELOW AND I REALIZED YOU MADE ME SAY "STALK ME FOR SURE I WOULD LOVE THAT" TOO WITHOUT REALIZING xD

Re: :DDDDD STALK ME FOR SURE I WOULD LOVE THAT

[slasher48.livejournal.com]

:laughing: BECAUSE I AM JUST THAT DAMN GOOD.

Re: :DDDDD STALK ME FOR SURE I WOULD LOVE THAT

[casey_sms.livejournal.com]

And yeah, I don't expect anyone to agree with this post 100%. Hell, I don't even agree with all of it, hahaha. It's kind of an extreme caricature of both Mark and Eduardo

HELL YES. THIS THIS THIS SO MUCH. I totally reserve the right to not agree with myself/something I posted. I did a dark/extreme reading of Eduardo here (which slasher48 above is referring to) and it was seriously cracky to me. Of course I was reminded of the readings that other people could take from that. It was/is an interesting experience. People not agreeing (in a civil way) is good. If everyone agreed with me, I'd think I was going insane.

On that note I also have more empathy for 19 year old Mark's drunk postings. He was 19. And drunk. (Definitely not 19 and I was sober and I still managed to kind of offend people xD)

I'm not biased at all O:)Don't let her fool you, she's most awesome cheerleader around (who also writes hot sex!) MOST CO-SIGNED COMMENTER EVER. HER MILKSHAKE COMMENTS BRING ALL THE BOYS WRITERS TO THE YARD.

Re: :DDDDD STALK ME FOR SURE I WOULD LOVE THAT

[slasher48.livejournal.com]

I already had empathy myself with his posts, but yeah. Offending people is kind of easy if you're honest on the internet. Check my journal if you don't know what I mean; there's a rage-against-incompetence-and-complacency post there. It cost me my best friend and one of the best writers on my community, so yeah. Mark, I get you, bb.

AND YES OH MY GOD YES. IT WAS CRACK BUT THERE WAS ~TRUTH IN IT. Just like the serial killer fic. And your abusive!Wardo.

:giggling like a manic thing: You are way way way way way too gushy about me, doll, but I adore you anyway.

AND OKAY MAYBE. MAYBE THEY DO SOMETIMES. I LOVE BEING CO-SIGNED OKAY, I MIGHT FIND IT A LITTLE AMAZING SO I MIGHT PURPOSEFULLY LEAVE COMMENTS FOR THAT SOMETIMES. WHATEVER. YEAH. ♥

/will stop taking up your post to go talk to CASEY about this in Gmail, k? :)

Re: :DDDDD STALK ME FOR SURE I WOULD LOVE THAT

[slasher48.livejournal.com]

anyway = ALL THE TIME NO MATTER HOW RIDICULOUSLY AMAZING YOU ARE AND NOT IN SPITE OF BUT BECAUSE YOU LOVE ME SO MUCH.

Re: :DDDDD STALK ME FOR SURE I WOULD LOVE THAT

[aeroport_art.livejournal.com]

Oh oh oh, I remember that piece of meta!!!!!! Sorry I didn't reply to it (I'm pretty awful with comments, actually), but I totally found it fascinating. It's just one in an infinite amount of readings one can adopt whilst writing Mark/Eduardo, but such an unusual one that it put a really fresh spin on the usual fandom characterisations. Made me think, and in a really good way XD

Re: :DDDDD STALK ME FOR SURE I WOULD LOVE THAT

[casey_sms.livejournal.com]

I'm awful with comments too. If something is a little off and I think improvements could be made, often I won't say anything unless it's a friend. I don't want it to be taken badly and it's just not worth the potential wank? Or maybe I'm a coward there. I'm almost deathly afraid of wank because I wring my hands and I don't know what to do. I feel like you're damned if you do and damned if you don't which is right but like...WHAT TO DO? I'm horrible with things like that.

Or the more common excuse/reason these days is that my time for fandom are stolen moments between things and I save all the goodies to my delicious and hope I have time to comment on them later. To do list is never done.

Definitely just one reading. I mean that's the fun of fic isn't it? To find different readings and open them up. And sometimes you get surprised in the comments by even more readings that people got out of it.

Thanks for the feedback :) Glad you enjoyed it! (Above all, I believe in fandom being fun. So yeah we have serious moments but while we're there I'd like to think we're all there because we want to be /random idealistic writerly thinking)

[casey_sms.livejournal.com]

I found this post really fascinating.

Your name sounds very familiar. I am not sure where I know you from but I'm guessing Merlin fandom maybe. Yep, just checked. I have some of your Merlin art bookmarked in my delicious ;) HI.

Can someone ever leave an abusive relationship?

This is the main idea I'm going over in my abusive!Eduardo fill for the kink meme >< (I kind of wanted to try the reverse of the Mark uses Eduardo trope and explore the abused becomes abuser trope with Eduardo as well as Eduardo abusing Mark because he wants to be forgiven.) It feels very much like a wip though and I'm not sure whether in trying that they are OOC. Probably one of the hardest prompts I've ever done/am doing.

Some other questions I'm interested in to add to the one above is how much forgiveness do we have? (Like how far can you push someone before it's past the point of no returns? Are there things that cannot be forgiven?) Can love be an excuse? Can it fix a betrayal? Do you need to forgive someone to move on? Can you love someone who has hurt you badly and who might hurt you again?

Ultimately I'm hoping readers will focus less on the abuse and more on the admittedly dysfunctional love. Two people who know each other best, hurt each other the most and comfort each other the most too. I find that dark love, incredibly flawed, to be really powerful. I am so weird.

I don't think Mark and Eduardo are a fairytale pairing. I think they're real, I think they're flawed, and I think through very, very good writing, someone can pick through the pieces of their broken selves and make something gorgeous out of it. And if we're lucky, they'll even get a happy ending ;) Hey, people mature! It isn't easy, but I would love to read that journey.

This is the reason I love Mark and Eduardo. I was first drawn to them because it's about two best friends and them falling out (my best friend of seven years and I fell in love and we had just broken up badly three weeks before I saw the movie and fic usually has them falling out of love as well so it really worked for me and I actually started writing even though I hadn't written for a while - it was all the happy and sad and bitterwseet). I do like that romance is not completely necessary (I guess I like gen sometimes too). Anyway I find the themes in TSN fandom to be really awesome: friendship, love, forgiveness, hope. Some of my favorite themes ever.

They're not 19 anymore. Things change and that is just the start of more futurefic xD I should end long ramble here.

Thanks for writing and sharing this <3

[aeroport_art.livejournal.com]

Eeek, epic comment is epic!!

I have some of your Merlin art bookmarked in my delicious ;) HI.

HI BACK. Oh man, fandom is such a small world!! Especially when the same girls are in it, year after year. I'm beginning to feel like an old dinosaur XD

This is the main idea I'm going over in my abusive!Eduardo fill for the kink meme

Ooooh, are you taking part in the kinkmeme? Link me to your fic!!! I've been combing through the memes, but only reading complete fics (because too many WIPs will KILL ME, I SWEAR). Still, I'd love to read whatever you have.

Like how far can you push someone before it's past the point of no returns? Are there things that cannot be forgiven?

*shivers* Such interesting questions. I love that the mark/eduardo dynamic has that edge of darkness, so that these less-than-heroic aspects of human nature can still be explored.

Ultimately I'm hoping readers will focus less on the abuse and more on the admittedly dysfunctional love

YES. EXACTLY.

[casey_sms.livejournal.com]

I will apologize that I didn't comment (or I don't think I did). I was major lurker with issues until about 2009. Then I just had issues xD Actually it's not that funny and I'm really awkward but aside from posting fic, I watched (and not even officially). THEN I CAME OUT OF MY SHELL. /random unnecessary short fandom bio

As for Merlin, I didn't write that many. Except I started on a dark dysfunctional relationship fill (lol that sounds familiar) which I've never finished posting. I've sort of got the rest of it in bits and pieces. It's mostly because I moved from fandom to fandom too fast to finish anything and a little of why I'm kind of freaked out I'll move before I finish my TSN wips.

I feel so old now that I'm not a student and officially looking for a job. I CAN'T DO THE STAY UP ALL NIGHT EVERY NIGHT NOW :pouts:

I'll link you to my LJ masterpost which consists of all my completed works. I'm crappy with masterposts so there's a link within that to AO3 if you want to browse by theme/kink/pairing. There's also my delicious but I don't really differentiate between wips and finished works and it's super spoilery because I keep stuff so I can help in fic finders. It's really kind of private (it's just making everything private is bothersome when I do so many) but it does have a lot of bookmarks so if you get sick of reading me you can go there.

I'm kind of dying from the tsn_kinkmeme because it's so awesome and I don't ever want to sleep. I totally get what you mean about WIPS. I don't track because it seriously does not work no matter what I do. I go flat and deal with it. It is seriously crazy sometimes but I don't think I'd have it any other way.

I never know where to link so I'll link to the most recent overflow post otherwise you'll be like WHERE IS THE REST. My three wips are (warning for slow updates?):
Closing the Distance (long distance relationship)
Even angels have (Grace in Purgatory) (Abusive relationship, noncon)
Marked (cutting)
'Marked' is on hold because lolol too many wips so it isn't on the overflow yet. I think I'll move it once either of the longer ones above get finished.

THERE IS TOO MUCH SELF PIMPING IN THIS POST FOR MY LIKING >< I AM CRINGING AT THIS. So please let me link you to the biggest TSN recs post that I know.

I love TSN so much I could go on about it forever. So if there is anything you're dying to see and wondering if it's out there, I'd be happy to help you find it.

Enjoy reading!

[aeroport_art.livejournal.com]

I've totally read your stuff XDXDXD You are quite the proficient/prolific writer, missy. Great stuff, I'm excited to go through your backlog <3 <3 <3

[casey_sms.livejournal.com]

THAT SCARES ME SO MUCH. I'm hoping it's because I'm loopy on meds (got really sick over the weekend) but I'm starting to forget stuff I've done. Or I'm like...what was the title of that? Did I write something like that? I FEEL LIKE I'VE IMAGINED IT. Good thing I haven't started in Inception then? *giggles*

Btw, my all time favorite work of yours is 'Choke' though the one of boys cuddling is also a favorite. I don't know what that says about me :P Hopefully it says that I feel your art has really nice proportions and I feel that they resemble the characters strongly. And that you make it very hot ;) Thanks especially for sharing 'Choke' because I know sharing stuff like that isn't always easy but definitely much appreciated ^^

Thanks for your enthusiasm too, it's very encouraging.